Thursday, August 16, 2007
large people and airplane seats
Update: While debate continues in the comments, I have invited a number of guest blogs around the theme of Faith in body image. Here is the first one: Why, if Christians are made in the image of God, is it so hard to look at ourselves n*ked in the mirror?
This might not be a very PC post, but I think airlines need to have a policy about large people and airplane seats. I pay good money for my seat. I expect to be able to use the whole seat that I pay for. Why should half of it be taken by another person? Why should I have to sit huddled into the window, unable to move?
When you board the airplane, the airline checks your carry on luggage is not to large. They provide a metal frame, and if your bag can’t fit, you can’t carry it on. It’s time airlines provided a similar, metal seat at check in. If you hang over the edge, then you need to pay for two seats. Pure and simple.
Come on large people. Stick up for yourself. Stand on your own feet. Stop expecting skinny people to subsidise your travel.
)
Good luck with the comments on this one!
Comment by Andrew — August 16, 2007 @ 7:37 pm
good point well made. I have had this problem on several transatlantic flights, one lasting 11 hours… oh man that sucked.
Comment by gareth — August 16, 2007 @ 8:56 pm
Wooh, Steve, man…. You’re pretty ‘ball’zy , saying something like that bro. But I’m also really surprised at the lack of comments left here, It’s deafening !….I mean, what ought to be the ‘ Christain ‘, ‘Godly’, ‘righteous’ – emergent response to such a declaration…. ‘ Evil advances in the earth when good people do nothing ‘ ! (I know there’s an actual quote like this but I can’t remember where or by who – anyone help me ? ) – Christe Eleison.
So yeah, what do our larger sized brethren have to say about this ? Does Steve have a point ? or is this a subtle form of bigotry that really should be taken up with the Airlines – They should provide larger seats or charge the same price even if they take up two seats. Does our society as a whole have some responsibility here – promoting bad food that’s leading to sky rocketing obesity ? WWJD ? Are the rights of ‘ Skinny ‘ people more valuable than the rights of ‘ Obese ‘ or just large people ?… Ya know Steve maybe the person next to you was feeling really bad about the situation. Yeah, I think the Airlines are the ones that need a tuning up not people who are larger who may not have the money to buy two seats.
Comment by Tangira — August 17, 2007 @ 2:43 pm
It’s those crying babies on parents laps that get me! Why shouldn’t get there own separate room or something – or at least have to pay for their own seats!
Same goes for those disabled people that take all that extra time to get loaded onto the plane. Why should us able bodied folks have to subsidize the weak and the sick? I’m sure you’d agree, right Steve?
Comment by Sam G. — August 17, 2007 @ 8:46 pm
You go Sam. I had to carry my 14 month old from Auckland to London. 36 hours in my lap. No paying for that seat. And my father is disabled, so feel free to plug the cheap shots.
Here is a snip from SouthWestern Airlines in US: “more vigilant regarding the additional purchase over the last two years when we began seeing an increase in the number of valid complaints from passengers who traveled without full access to the seat purchased because a large Customer infringed upon the adjacent seating space … Southwest Airlines does not condone discrimination in any form. We have Employees and Customers of all races, ethnicity, religions, shapes, and sizes. Our Mission and our responsibility per our Contract of Carriage is to provide safe and comfortable air transportation for each and every Customer. This policy has been upheld in court and is supported by the Department of Transportations stance that the purchase of a single ticket offers the use of a single seat.” http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
steve
Comment by steve — August 18, 2007 @ 12:08 am
Well done Steve, this really irks us too.
Maybe us lighter people should be able to carry more luggage to compensate for the extra weight that the heavier people are carrying. We think that at check-in it should be a combined weight of person and luggage.
Yah for common sense!
Comment by Aaron & Summer — August 20, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Well done Steve, this really irks us too.
Maybe us lighter people should be able to carry more luggage to compensate for the extra weight that the heavier people are carrying. We think that at check-in it should be a combined weight of person and luggage.
Yah for common sense!
Comment by Aaron & Summer — August 20, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
Well done Steve, this really irks us too.
Maybe us lighter people should be able to carry more luggage to compensate for the extra weight that the heavier people are carrying. We think that at check-in it should be a combined weight of person and luggage.
Yah for common sense!
Comment by Aaron & Summer — August 20, 2007 @ 12:10 pm
I believe if you complain to a steward that your seat is infringed most airlines will move you – including into business class if there are seats available
But then you have to overcome the kiwi desire to not be seen as whinger…
That said I have travelled with my boss who is 6’4″ and large framed tho fit – but he doesn’t fit in the seats either. It would seem unfair to discriminate against him when clearly the seat is not designed for him.
As a tip: always ask for the “exit row” – they fill it last and you get extra leg room and sometimes on long haul flights (depending on configuration) only 2 seats in the row…
Comment by Randall — August 20, 2007 @ 2:32 pm
Someone said why aren’t more people making comments here? And how ballsy?
I guess its easy to strike out on a blog with much talk and minimal responsibility.
As a big woman when I hear your comment I fold into myself, feel ashamed, and like I want to hide myself away. After all ‘how dare big people take up space?’
I see you a bit Steve although I don’t think you’d ever recognise me; I’m not one of your cool hip missional stories. Last week I thought I would finally take the courage to ask for your help. Im on the edge mostly but now I think not, I would be wondering the whole time if you were judging me, and after all in my bigness I may take up too much space.
A final question you say stick up for yourself! Well why didnt you? Rather than sitting there the whole time being invisible squashed into a corner?
Exploration of that would have made for me an interesting blog that would have made it far easier to make which now feels like a lost opportunity to make a connection. You see I know being invisable and squashed in a corner I may have even been able to empathise
Lilly
Comment by lilly — August 20, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Someone said why aren’t more people making comments here? And how ballsy?
I guess its easy to strike out on a blog with much talk and minimal responsibility.
As a big woman when I hear your comment I fold into myself, feel ashamed, and like I want to hide myself away. After all ‘how dare big people take up space?’
I see you a bit Steve although I don’t think you’d ever recognise me; I’m not one of your cool hip missional stories. Last week I thought I would finally take the courage to ask for your help. Im on the edge mostly but now I think not, I would be wondering the whole time if you were judging me, and after all in my bigness I may take up too much space.
A final question you say stick up for yourself! Well why didnt you? Rather than sitting there the whole time being invisible squashed into a corner?
Exploration of that would have made for me an interesting blog that would have made it far easier to make which now feels like a lost opportunity to make a connection. You see I know being invisable and squashed in a corner I may have even been able to empathise
Lilly
Comment by lilly — August 20, 2007 @ 3:25 pm
Lilly,
i am not sure it’s a fair comparison to link a person taking up half my airline seat with you wondering about approaching me.
the anonymity of the blog makes this a complex dynamic … do I now scan all my circle of acquaintances, wondering who is not talking to me and who might classify themselves as not “one of your cool hip missional stories” (your words not mine)?
steve
Comment by steve — August 20, 2007 @ 5:15 pm
Randall,
any tips on how to complain to a airsteward without pubicly embarrassing the person sitting beside me? i thought about saying something, but that makes the whole thing public with the person present,
steve
Comment by steve — August 21, 2007 @ 9:31 am
Well my experience has been they seem to spend a large amount of time hiding in that middle area of the plane with no toilets where they take refuge from complaining passengers…
Seriously tho I get up and take a walk around the plane – maybe right down the back or (on the big planes) the section where there is no toilets – take your boarding pass so they can confirm that you are where you say you are – also take your book since you probably won’t want to go back to your seat if you are feeling sensitive to your fellow traveller and you can come back afterwards to get your carry on…
Of course that means you still need to ask your fellow traveller to move from their seat to let you up…
;o)
Lilly – I don’t think Steve was being particularly pointed or judgemental – it’s not in his nature from my experience – he’s certainly been very helpful to a very dear friend of mine so I think you should give him another shot
Comment by Randall — August 21, 2007 @ 10:15 am
Lilly,
even after a sleep, I continue to remain uneasy about the dynamics around my post and your comment. I feel like there’s a some things not being said very clearly and well. I am not sure what needs to happen next in terms of clarity, appreciation and understanding, but I will be disappointed if the situation remains as it is. It is easy on the web to fire off a post, easy on the web to fire off a comment, and then for both parties to go quiet. I hope that doesn’t happen in this case but I’m not sure what next. any ideas?
steve
Comment by steve — August 21, 2007 @ 1:15 pm
I am not sure what to say. You are right it is easy to fire off posts and comments. And to hold people up to unreasonable standards?
If ever I wish I had just kept my mouth shut.
All my life I have had people judge me about my size and I guess you represented someone I admired. To read your blog so brief, so blanket, well it made me sad.
When you hurt about an issue that someone has a go at even when it isnt directly fired at you, its easy to take it upon yourself, regardless if that was intended, I guess like a racist slur to a person of colour which you then say you didnt mean them. I know I am sensitive about this Steve, and I acknowledge that this is my issue but I am not sure what more there is to say
Lilly
Comment by Lilly — August 21, 2007 @ 3:55 pm
Lilly,
I’m glad you commented and I’m glad you came back to comment again. Thankyou.
If I am being “fat-ist” I’d like to be held to account and that is one of the good (and scarey) things about a blog.
I’m actually quite glad to slip down your standards of admiration :), cos polishing an image is such hard work.
steve
Comment by steve — August 21, 2007 @ 4:12 pm
Thank you Lilly for your courage and deep honesty.
As a big woman as well, I would have to say Steve I have watched this issue with some horror and as much as the invitation was put out, I have some nervousness in responding. We all have bigotry (gosh the word takes on new meaning at this point) and yes I do think this exposes an aspect of that.
What I would say too though is that in our thin is in culture, it is actually an almost an unspoken societal norm for people to shake your heads in disgust when a big person fills their trolley at the supermarket with something other than diet, or heaven forbid puts that chocolate in their mouth in public- let alone enjoys it!
I too when I read your comment wondered how I would approach you now, I wondered what does he really think of me?
Which of course lead to such questions as ?
Do I put out chocolate biscuits out at our next meeting?
Do I dare eat one?
Or
Do I take my outraged girlfriends advice and change your chair in the conference room to the really small one we use for children and see if he dares make a comment?
Seriously though I did feel uncomfortable and Lilly I can relate to that feeling of shame and hiding away, feelings too though which I know are mine (beggar it).
All I can say is in some twisted way thank you both for staying in the uncomfortable conversation.
Comment by Megan — August 21, 2007 @ 6:23 pm
I am staggered by the original comment. It is the kind of comment which I am immediately ashamed of if I have it. And which leads me to examine my attitudes. Pretty selfish, too – totally concerned with your rights, your personal comfort, your feelings. What about the feelings of the “fattie” beside you. Or are you so good at hiding your feelings that your body language would not have communicated the disgust you obviously felt?
Large people do not always have control over their body size. WE do know from what many have said that they often feel embarrased and ostracised.
This person is someone God has created and loves – I suspect God loves every kg of her/him. Maybe you missed out on an opportunity to be Christ here, showing love, acceptance, interest in another person simply because it is another person regardless of their outward appearance.
Quite a disgusting posting for a Christian, really, isn’t it.
Comment by sixites chick — August 21, 2007 @ 8:52 pm
Can people please be careful with their language on this post. Words like “fattie” and “disgusting” seem to me to be needlessly prejorative and to display little of Christ’s love and acceptance.
Can we also try to keep focused on the topic of the post; is it fair to expect to utilise the seat of a stranger. Why or why not?
I appreciate that this is emotive and personal and it would be much nicer to pretend that this never happened and that people just travelled in ideal harmony. But we don’t so, can we be honest and talk about the real world where interpersonal relationships are complex.
steve
Comment by steve — August 21, 2007 @ 11:44 pm
Hmmmmm. Perhaps I should have let ‘sleeping dogs lie ‘ I feel somewhat responsible in that I provoked responses to this post. Was Steve a little insensitive with this post ?… Maybe, but if so, I don’t think it was deliberate.
As far as the issue is concerned, I think this is a Airline issue that needs to be taken up with them. Both thin and large people pay a lot of money for their seat and they both deserve to be comfortable – this link that Steve provided : http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
Is a very convenient position for them to take and doesn’t really address the problem satisfactorily.
As far as the charges that have been laid at Steve’s door in regards to his character… The interesting thing is that I’ve never met the man. But I’ve been listening and participating in his blog for some time now, and others that interact with him too. I’m with Randells assessment: I have not experienced him as being bigoted, vindictive, vicious, or condescending in any way – although maybe he’s a little provocative now and again. I would recommend that those of you who have questioned his motives in this post, If possible, get together with the man and have a conversation…. I mean face to face – see ‘the whites of his eyes’ and let your God given intuition speak to you. I trust you will be pleasantly surprised.
Although this conversation has been uncomfortable for some, I think it has been valid and insightful. I’ve at least learned a lot.
Tena Koutou,
Tangira.
Comment by Tangira — August 22, 2007 @ 11:00 am
Your reaction is a bit of a cop-out, brother. Its all very well saying, “People who know him know he’s not like that.” I only know you through the words on your blog. And to say the words I choose to express my very real response to this topic are perjorative and lacking in love makes it easy for you not to take on board my challenge to you. Your response was lacking in the love and acceptance of God. No good hiding behind “this is an airline issue” now.
I am not one of your large people. You would find me easy to sit beside on a plane. But I may find it hard to sit next to you if you , for example, couldn’t fit your legs in straight because you are tall, and needed to encroach upon my leg room; or were from a culture which thinks sniffing is the proper response to a runny nose; or had been travelling for hours and had really bad BO; or just simply liked to spread and use all of both armrests, elbows extending into the next passenger. I have met all of these situations on long and short flights. It is not easy when we want or need privacy or space. When we are tired, we don’t always respond with the love of God to that person. I know this – and understand.
However, I still find it disgusting that a Christian is willing to expose himself in such a public way with no hint of remorse or repentance for causing offence to a particular group of people.
By the way, how is the word “fattie” offensive – especially when written with quotation marks to indicate it is not a word I normally use – when your word “Fat-ist” isn’t??? And didn’t you say you would like to be taken up on this? Well, that’s what I’m doing!
I don’t really want to meet Steve face to face, and should not have to in order to know what kind of person he is. Words he puts into print should show me what kind of person he is.
Comment by sixties chick — August 22, 2007 @ 12:26 pm
I am reminded of sitting in a vestry meeting that had spent hours over what to me was a small issue. As I sat there I started creating bumper stickers and before me was one that read Its a just a bloody cake stall get over it. What I had failed to see in my impatience was that to the others here this was never about just a cake stall or indeed a seating issue.
This is about so much more, of woundedness and pain of statements and growing awareness. A place such as this is dynamic and limited when dealing with the work of the soul, which remains our primal calling and indeed what happens when we scuff up against another and get bumped (and not to first class :).
Ever since I posted I have been wondering how to make contact.
Steve by my bed I have a card from your Church that calls for each of us to pronounce peace upon each house we enter. My offer to you if you if you wish to take it up, is to step out of this medium. To find a place without pressure of time and with good coffee and talk about this and indeed what it is for us to be who we are. You have opened yourself up to a lot, and if you are ever genuinely interested in finding out more then the offer stands.
This place to you I think is an extension of home so I offer to you that which Christ reminded us about earlier Peace to this place.
Megan
Comment by Megan — August 22, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
Megan,
ta. honoured to be invited to your table. very happy to listen. is it just you and i, or are there others that you would like to see around the table?
steve
Comment by steve@emergentkiwi.org.nz — August 22, 2007 @ 3:49 pm
Cheers Steve
I guess I don’t mind either way, the only thing I would say is that folk if you want to enter into a real time conversation about this come with an open heart and mind.
Peace
Megan
Comment by Megan — August 22, 2007 @ 4:03 pm
… I’d love to be there, but alas, I’m along way away and I think I’ve said enough.
Meagan bless you in your endeavour to choose peace and grace. I am humbled… I bless you both and anyone else that chooses to go to the table – “… Kanohi ki te Kanohi” : see each other’s eyes and beyond..
Comment by Tangira — August 22, 2007 @ 4:27 pm
sixties chick,
i am certainly willing to apologise, but i am yet to discern whether I have caused offense, or whether offense has been taken. I think there is a difference. While this post has generated a lot of emotion, I am still waiting to be told why my expectation that I should be allowed to use all of the seat that I paid, for is unreasonable.
I’m looking forward to learning as I talk face to face with some people, although aware that in doing so I will be mixing virtual and real community, which is not good for those blog readers who can’t be in Christchurch. perhaps together a summary of our conversation can be written up for the web. i think there are some themes around made in God’s image and body image that I am about to learn. that learning can continue on blog by all means.
steve
Comment by steve — August 22, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
I think people who are blessed with great genetics
in the weight department often tend to struggle with pride as if they deserve credit for their weight, or lack of it. That response tends to give some of our “height/weight proportionate” friends a “superiority complex” and they tend to look down their nose at the less fortunate, and even struggle with offence. I do however recognize that their really is a true issue however. Airplane seats are not the only problem, roller coasters, theater seats all transportation seats. Maybe that’s why churches have traditionally used Pughs? You know Steve, one of the first things you said was this might not be a very PC post, but I think airlines need to have a policy about large people and airplane seats. You are right on both accounts. 1. It is not politically correct; we go to great lengths to accommodate people with handicaps in wheelchairs etc. Shouldnt the law of love require that we should accommodate everyone? 2. I think the airline companys should be forced to make pleasant accommodations by providing some larger seats. They cram as many little seats into the plane to maximize profits; I don’t deny them their right to make money thats what capitalism is all about however we all have a responsibility to ensure capitalism doesn’t become the sacrifice of morals for money. In short Steve, I think our focus on this issue needs to be on how to fix the problem without being offended at people but by accommodating people. “The law of love”
Chris
Comment by Chris Buystedt — August 23, 2007 @ 7:27 am
“Can people please be careful with their language on this post. Words like “fattie” and “disgusting” seem to me to be needlessly prejorative and to display little of Christ’s love and acceptance.”
Your original post showed none of Christ’s love and acceptance. It was arrogant and hateful. And as a brother in Christ I call you on this as a matter of accountability. It is NEVER alright to attack someone else for the way they look, and certainly not because your supposed petty “rights”, financial output, or conveniance have been harmed. As a Christian you give up those petty rights, and follow Christ’s way of always turning the other cheek, showing compassion and empathy for others,and forbearing with others, going the xtra mile. Complaining about having to squish over to accommadate another human being, and worse, attacking larger people in general on a public forum for no better reason than personal inconveniance, is unaccepable, especially for a Christian leader.
Comment by Shawn — August 23, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
wow… it’s hard to know what to say, apart from a sense that I want to say something in response to this..
i can seem the waves of pain and shame are inflicted by self and society. the pain tapped here is much more than a query over how we travel short, round, tall, long, wide … when we have to travel together.
My best friend and I have both been larger sized. We travelled together on a plane to the USA and around the USA. Every seat is different, every trip is different, and it’s uncomfortable at times. Even more so when you’re travelling with friends and everybody is uncomfortable and stuck with each other.
I’m smaller now – in fact, almost regular sized. I’m going to the USA again in October – and I’ll enjoy knowing that I’m not encroaching on the seat next to me, but I’ll still uncomfortable and self-conscious for the rest of my life about how much space I take up in doorways, stairwells, car bench seats, church pews and theatre seats not to mention airline seats.
I’ll always feel self-conscious because I’ve always been aware of the impact of my physical presence in any environment.
I think Steve is entitled to as comfortable a seat as possible, as I am. Perhaps the answer is in bigger seats, which would still then result in bigger ticket prices. Some I know, buy business class tickets for the larger seat in order to accomodate themselves and others more comfortably.
Anyway – I’m encouraged by the turn at the end of this conversation, where some will sit down together facing each other instead of side by side. The further you encroach upon each other’s space when face to face, hopefully the further you travel towards one another, rather than in opposition.
Comment by tash — August 23, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
I’m not sure I agree with your post Shawn. Steve’s original post contains no reference to ‘the way the person looked’ – he doesn’t even indicate the person next to him was obese – he said ‘large’
I think people are rushing to judge Steve – he asked a legitimate question. I see no issue with Steve asking the question – if we don’t ask we will never learn.
Your question about rights is a great one and challenging. But I think your line of “attacking larger people in general” is reading much more into this post than I see here…
Comment by Randall — August 23, 2007 @ 5:09 pm
Using “large” means the same thing. He attacked someone based on that persons physical appearence. Worse, he attacked someone for supposedly taking up too much space. What would Jesus say to that? Had Steve just fronted up and said “sorry, I was wrong and selfish, please forgive me” , I would not have had an issue. But instead he tries to justify himself using a deeply un-Christian attitude towards others. There is no excuse fpr both what he said and the way he said it.
Comment by Shawn — August 23, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
Okay, just because someone is large why do we assume that Steve meant fat? The person could have been a large person; tall, well set etc? For all we know he might have been sitting next to an All Black (It wouldn’t have been a Wallaby because they fly first class!!!) Maybe our reactions tell us more about ourselves than Steve???
Comment by mark — August 23, 2007 @ 8:31 pm
Shawn, for some reason, your first comment at 2:05 yesterday for some reason was never emailed to me, so I am a bit slow to respond.
A few comments:
1. a few weeks ago you were accusing me of being liberal, although you were not able to be specific with that accusation. so i think I am honoured to now be considered your brother in Christ. 🙂
2. i do think it is ironic that I am being personally attacked – with words like “arrogant” “hateful” “disgusting” – for allegedly attacking others. there is a certain level of hypocrisy at work.
3. i find the image of Christians as nice to be imcompatible with the way of Jesus. He said some very blunt things to people. lets stop being rosy eyed.
4. i do not consider my post hateful. the words i used were accurate, the person was ‘large.’ that was a word of fact. when i arrived to take my seat, they had folded up the armrest and they were occupying a good part of my seat. we were both uncomfortable about the unfolding situation. so my post was me asking what could be done. i still think my question is valid and has not really been discussed … do people of a different body size than me have a right to take up my seat? if not, who is responsible – them or the airline?
5. i did not want to make some people feels victims and small, hence the last paragraph of my post, which was, in hindsight, needlessly provocative, and for that I apologise.
6. i indicated yesterday that I was ready to apologise. that readiness has not changed. i continue to talk about this with people who know me well and as a next step, i have some face to face listening to do.
7.in the meantime, i am inviting guest post on the issues that seem to swirl around all our comments … what on earth does “made in God’s image” mean in real life for us as Christians. You are welcome to write one on what it means for how we treat people if you want.
steve
Comment by steve — August 24, 2007 @ 1:17 pm
First, I am a big man who recently had to move airline seats because a much larger man than me spilled into my seat area. I am conscious, when flying that I don’t intrude on my seat mates space. Would that others do the same. I think that is common courtesy.
I read the post when Steve first posted it on the 16th. Did I think it was strong? A little. But I know how much travel Steve has been doing lately and the frustrations therein. I thought Steve would get a little push back – but nothing like what I’ve read here where folk have chosen to question Steve’s openness and his character. I’m stunned.
I have the pleasure of knowing Steve (even though I’m Toronto-based and Steve is in the beautiful southern hemisphere). He is a straight shooter…and he has a heart as big as today and tomorrow.
Wrestle with his words all you want and hold him accountable for them. Just do not ascribe motives to a man you do not know.
In the immortal words of Charlie Brown, “Good Grief.”
Comment by Bill Kinnon — August 24, 2007 @ 2:26 pm
one thing that interests me as the wife-and-partner-of-steve is that everything i know about the person beside steve on that flight is recorded in his blog.
he arrived home exhausted and stressed and said he had an uncomfortable flight because the person beside him was large and encroached onto his seat.
he mentioned a day or so later after reading the airline thing he refers to in his comment that the person had the armrest up.
i don’t know whether this large person was “fat”, “obese”, All Black, tall or short, male or female, because he simply hasn’t told me. it didn’t/doesn’t matter. it was not / is not relevant.
the issue for steve was and always has been that he was unable to use all of his seat and was therefore uncomfortable.
I can appreciate that people may become insecure about their own realities as a result of his post.
and yes, there was a degree of flippancy perhaps in the post that he would now likely omit
but i am with bill and randall on this one… please don’t ascribe motives to him.
please don’t bundle onto steve the pain of other’s past responses to you/your friends.
this lovely man didn’t want to offend his neighbour by requesting a seat change. i feel certain he didn’t spend the flight “hmphing” and glaring, more likely he “made do”. he wondered after the event what could/should be done to prevent a situation from occuring again. and asked whether airline or individual should be responsible.
in answer to that question… it seems it wouldn’t be difficult for the people responsible for check in to, wherever possible, assign an empty seat next to those who look like they will have trouble fitting in a regular seat. (and assign the emergnecy exit seats to the long legged) . more difficult now that we have the check in machine things, but not impossible.
flight attendants could also be alert to when it is likely to be an issue, and ask neighbouring people if they would prefer to sit elsewhere. yes, of course, sensitively. do i need to say that?
so that’s me.
Comment by lynne — August 24, 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Seems to me that Luke 10 suggests that when someone encroaches on our space our role is to act as a generous host! It also seems that when this is reversed (so we become the one in need of hospitality) we are to accept the ‘first house that we come to’ and that if they don’t offer hospitality then we are to shake the dust off our feet. Is that what the large person should have done to you Steve, out of this post?
Comment by Andrew — August 27, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
Andrew,
i was the last one seated, so would consider myself the guest.
the way I apply Luke 10 would be to see the airline as host and both me and my companion as guest — hence my asking the airline for more considerate hospitality.
steve
Comment by steve — August 28, 2007 @ 10:19 am
Fair enough about seeing the airline as the host (which means that they do a lousy job seeing you pay and get a bad seat) but that means that the large person becomes your neighbour to whom we need to love as we love ourselves.
So what would Jesus do? Travel business class and avoid the whole problem?
Comment by Andrew — August 28, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
…. And Andrew’s last question is a good reminder to everybody; make sure you’re wearing your WWJD bracelet or Tee shirt.
Andrew, I think if you read down through the comments you get the idea that Steve ‘sucked it up’ or endured his predicament. But that doesn’t mean he can’t ask the question… Even if it’s uncomfortable. He is bearing the consequences of that too.
Comment by Tangira — August 28, 2007 @ 1:43 pm
Hmmm, very interesting. I stumbled across this forum quite by accident today and am facinated with this whole subject and the comments made. I am a large person and have and still am working hard to change that. Mostly because I know that it would be better for my health and also to be honest because I am tired of feeling embarrassed when I am in situations where I can’t do up my seat belt(especially in public) without a great deal of struggle. Just last month we were on a flight to Tonga and I thank God I didnt have to share a row with anyone else other than my 2 year old daughter. While my 13 year old opposite me encourgaged me to get an extention belt, I was determined to make the single belt fit. The other consolation for me was that half the passengers were a little larger then I was anyway and I was quite secretly overjoyed when I managed to click the belt on without having to ask for an extention, unlike others around me. If other large people are like me, there is alot that goes on inside us and it is difficult even before we sit down. The last thing I want to do is to draw attention to myself by inconvieniancing other people. We (well I do) have the opposite problem where too much of me can be seen and I would rather be huddled in a corner out of sight and out of mind, until I am satisfied that I have been transformed and this starts on the inside. The thing is Steve, you were bound to get negative comments with such a sensitive issue. For me as a large person not only am I struggling with things like doing up seat belts, I am also conscious of what people might be thinking. So when you comment the way you did, it hits many issues. Initially I was offended, however now I am grateful because it has pushed me further in my journey of being honest with how I really feel about myself and other people. Until we are honest, how can there be change? I AM WORK IN PROGRESS and that is why it is hard for me to look at myself n*ked in the mirror both in a physical sense and also spiritualy. I am grateful for Gods grace in my life that is enabling me to overcome such issues and as He heals and changes me on the inside as only He can, I know the day is coming when I will be transformed on the outside and not ashamed to look at my n*kedness. I admire your honesty Steve but maybe it could have gone further by just simply telling the person next to you that you need to have the arm rest down. Incidentally, we are off to Australia next month and I am not expecting as many larger people then me, so spare a thought for the large me. I have been doing my best to lose the extra baggage (excuse the pun),because I am dreading the thought of the seat belt not fitting me in front of all those skinny people.
Comment by Karen — August 28, 2007 @ 11:10 pm
As I was going over my posting I realised that I may have offended people when I said the words “negative comments” It was a wrong choice of words on my part, it really should have been opposing comments. Who am I to decide what is negative? Sorry. Am I being too PC now?
Comment by Karen — August 29, 2007 @ 12:36 am
As I was going over my posting I realised that I may have offended people when I said the words “negative comments” It was a wrong choice of words on my part, it really should have been opposing comments. Who am I to decide what is negative? Sorry. Am I being too PC now?
Comment by Karen — August 29, 2007 @ 12:44 am
Peace to this place.
Wow you go away for a few days and look what happens! As someone who challenged Steve earlier, last night he and I met in a cafe to talk about this issue face to face. Thanks Steve for the taking up my invitation, for listening openly and sharing of yourself. Of course such a conversation is actually a lot bigger than something that occurs over coffee. I just wanted to acknowledge your efforts Steve to understand this issue and to look at yourself here. Thanks too for your invitation to contribute a piece to your Blog which I shall take up shortly.
And thank you all for your comments which although at times sharp for me at least show that people are passionate about this.
Blessings
Megan
http://fringedwellers.blogspot.com/
Comment by Megan — August 29, 2007 @ 10:27 am
Thanks Megan. Much more helpful and real and honest talking face 2 face for me too.
I regret the wording of the 3rd paragraph. It was only meant to invite large people to join me in talking with the airlines, and was not intended as a globalised challenge to all large people. I apologise for the effects of any lack of precision.
I acknowledge I wrote the post when tired. Thus it was a strong post. That is consistent with this blog, which as the header says “a work in process :: thoughts expressed are personal opinions, and are not necessarily final opinions.” In other words, this is a honest blog, not a smoothly polished blog. If you want polish and perfection, find a glossy magazine. In saying this, as am also asking all readers engage with me in that spirit of processing aloud.
I acknowledge that society constantly sends messages about ideal sizes and that I, as do we all, subconsciously absorb these. This absorbtion might be reflected in my attitudes and words. I might be bigotted. I have sought honest opinion from those who know me most honestly. Equally, if a person wishes to pre-judge me as being biggotted, I am left wondering if they are themselves have chosen to enter into these societal attitudes.
I am fascinated that the other people who have got most angry at me in this post also live in Chch. Indeed, a curious mix of blog world and real world. I am happy to meet face to face if that would be helpful. steve at emergentkiwi dot org dot nz
steve
Comment by steve@emergentkiwi.org.nz — August 30, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Kia Ora Steve. Since discovering this sight a couple of days ago, I think its great that we can be real about real issues even if it does offend. I have come to realise on my journey with God that when I am offended it is never about the other person or even the issue but about what God is allowing to be revealed in my own heart (if I am brave and honest enough to look at it). Like looking at ourselves n*ked in the mirror. I appreciate your honest blog. Kia Ora to you Megan, your honesty and peace from one large person to another.
Comment by Karen — August 30, 2007 @ 3:31 pm
Perhaps a good way forward is to not just restrict the conversation about large peole but also long and short people. I am tall and find it really hard to fit inoto airline seats. A friend of mine is short and her legs go to sleep on long flights because she can’t touch the floor. The common issue here is the design of airline seats and the place consumer power in fighting airlines who force us into these predicaments.
Comment by Andrew — August 31, 2007 @ 12:06 pm